now regular viewers of the daily
politics may have watched this on
Wednesday lunchtime George Galloway
following following never following
yesterday's announcement never here will
the Prime Minister Adam Bri for the
house the key
differences between the hand chopping
throat cutting
jihadists fighting the dictatorship in
Mali that we are now to help to kill and
the equally bloodthirsty jihadists that
we are giving money material political
and diplomatic support to in Syria has
the Prime Minister read Frankenstein and
did he read it to the
end well some things come and go but
there is one thing that is certain
wherever there is a brutal Arab dictator
in the world he'll have the support of
The Honorable gentleman
now that was David Cameron's response it
caused a little bit of an upset actually
some viewers to our program thought it
was a tad rout uh we tried to get Adam
bra Mr Adam bra to join us today but he
was unavailable instead we have the
respect MP George Gallow he's the man
who asked the question he's got the same
excellent suit and waist coat but not
the tie I lost the tie I only IID
morning dress now when you asked that
question did did you not think that that
that you were opening yourself to that
the response that you got well not from
that particular pot to call this kettle
black when he promptly flew off to pose
for pictures with the dictator of
Algeria and is busily selling as many
weapons as he can to every brutal Arab
dictator that will pay uh no but in any
case vulgar abuse uh does not an answer
make and what your viewers have been
saying to you
uh is of a par with what's being said to
me that actually that's quite an
interesting question I wonder what the
answer is David camon certainly didn't
give it I mean he certainly I mean as
all Western governments are vulnerable
to having supported Arab dictators um
but I guess people could say is well
you've got your dictators and he's got
his dictators well the British state is
in the front of uh marketing weapons and
giving diplomatic and political support
both to to brutal Arab dictators and
jihadists in Syria and I was merely
asking is it a case of good al-Qaeda in
Syria and bad al-Qaeda in Mali because
of course we've been down this road
before you and I perhaps uniquely on
this platform are old enough to remember
when we used to hail and arm and finance
other jihadists who later became
al-Qaeda in Afghanistan in the 1980s
that's the question not uh my views on
this or that Arab government but whether
the British State should be doing this
let me just unpeel a bit the uh the
jihadists in Mali in Northern Mali and
those who are fighting the government in
Syria at the moment it seems pretty
clear that the jihadists had taken
control of a movement in Northern uh
Mali which had originally been for
autonomy it was the teg tribals and so
on but they taking control and were
heading south they were calling the
shots by them even the two AR tribesman
admit that there is no doubt the yadis
are part of the uprising in Syria but
they're not in any means in control well
the New York Times thinks they are uh
and the state department talked nearly a
year ago about the flicker of al-Qaeda
which has now become a flame uh the even
that doesn't mean them in control indeed
they've been attacked by the people who
who are at the top of the Insurgency at
the moment well those chaps that you see
on the news every night especially if
you watch
uh chanting Allahu abbar and uh lining
up prisoners to cut their heads off
indeed videoing themselves cutting
people's heads off sound pretty
dangerous to me and I just think it's uh
a Frankenstein monster that's being
created was created in the80s in
Afghanistan and if you have read as you
will have written by a scotswoman Mary
shell Frankenstein's monster the modern
promethus you'll know that it's called a
monster because you can't control it
once you've built it and theer is not
called Frankenstein either no inde
uh does this then lead you to support
Assad no I don't support either the
jihadists or Assad you seem very simp I
mean I'm not going to look through it
all but the our research teams come up
with plenty of quotes with you being
pretty friendly to mrad and pretty
friendly to the dictatorship of Syria
well from the that's from 2005 I think
you you quoted these things at me again
that's at the time he was riding around
in a carriage with the Queen up the mile
and sleeping in her spare room no I
support coffe Anan a spare room I just
want to one ofare rooms want to check
that it was a spare room well I support
kofan Nan's plan to have a negotiated
transition to democracy in Syria I just
don't think it's wise to be paying and
arming and bringing in Legions of throat
Cutters and hand Choppers into Syria a
country you know is a very complicated
one with lots of religious and ethnic
minorities and in strategically very
explosive place but what do you make
then of your uh I'll be provocative for
a change of your mates in Iran sending
Assad all the support well we're sending
the enemies of Assad support and Russia
we Britain uh Britain and its American
uh Master well we're not sending any
arms or weapons to we're giving them
money if you give them money you're
giving them arms they can do they can do
with the money what they what they like
but you're not dis but but the the
Iranians are sending serious weapons and
even revolutionary guards have been sent
there well you know serious weapons
won't do Assad any good you're fighting
in the streets hand to hand with these
jihadists serious we keep saying I and I
I understand I'm not arguing with you
that there aren't jihadists involved in
the struggle against Assad but I think
you have to admit that they are not the
leaders in this or even the majority of
the uprising I don't accept that at all
you're right if you say that they're not
all jihadists the Syrian people had
plenty to revolt about Syrian people had
plenty to rise up about and they had the
same right to do so as any people in the
world have the right to but no one who
seriously studies this is in any doubt
that the fighting is being done by
Foreign jihadists in the main and they
will inherit the power the people who uh
do the fighting are the people who come
to power and it's wise of you not to
dispute That central point because the
time will come if they win when we'll be
sitting here talking about their latest
atrocity perhaps across the border in
the UK and Us's favorite country Israel
you uh were pretty Keen after you won
your byelection of calling it The
Bradford spring you seem a bit less keen
on the Arab Spring no I'm absolutely
behind the Arab Spring the difference
between me and the government is I've
been calling for it for the last 35
Springs I've been asking and calling for
revolution in the Arab world always and
it's a messy business you can't make
omelets without out breaking eggs so how
would you describe its progress so far
say in Egypt or Libya in Egypt it's not
going well in Tunisia it's going better
in Libya it's a thoroughgoing disaster
you think is a disaster in liya and this
is a classic case we hated Gaddafi then
we loved Gaddafi then we uh delivered uh
the jihadists to Gaddafi to be tortured
then we backed those jihadists to
overthrow Gaddafi and now those
jihadists have killed the American
American ambassador in Benghazi and
we've just evacuated all our people uh
from there will you be happy when Mr
Assad goes yes I think the people of
Syria need to choose a a ruler who's not
part of the same family as the the
dynasty that they've had for 40 years
there I think we need democracy in Syria
and we need it in Saudi Arabia and we
need it in all Arab countries but you
don't get democracy by bombing countries
from a far
uh neither do you get it by interposing
jihadists of the al-Qaeda stripe final
question before I bring in a uh our
guests have been listening patiently
were the French right to intervene in
Mali no uh they're the last people given
their colonial history you know that
Mali used to be called French Sudan sure
uh and they looted Mali uh of as much as
they could carry including the people of
Mal the people of M seem to be rather
happy to see them well some of them do
the ones that the Western cameras I find
uh to put on the news you think that's
unrepresentative I do uh 90% of malians
are Muslims you don't think the BBC
would if someone said we don't want the
French here you don't think we'd run
that uh no because you're not seeking
out the and neither are they coming
forward I have no doubt uh it's not a
good time to come forward if the French
hadn't intervened it was quite clear
that they were going to take the Hall of
Mali the you had the the the throat
cutting hand chopping you had us that
you were complaining about I don't think
that's necessarily true because as you
rightly said it's much more complicated
than that the tware people have uh
legitimate demands that they've been
making for decades long before Al-Qaeda
ever existed but but uh the the the
point is Andrew that these uh these uh
the government of Mali is a military
dictatorship we're backing the military
dictatorship no it's an ugly baby
contest people are against it and we'll
see what happens and when terrible
things start happening don't say you
wen't warned well that's the TR isn't it
because no matter if you try and
understand the situation it entirely
depends how far back in history you go
as to where you think allegiances should
be and it becomes more and more complex
I mean what what would be the right
thing for the government to do our
government to do well I'm not sure that
Mali is something that ought to be
occupying our government at the moment
our economy it had to occupy our
government because that happened it's a
far away country in North Africa it
contains no threat to us whatsoever we
have have no historical relationship
with it whatsoever and we're broke we
can't we can't keep our pensioners warm
in the winter time but we're ready to
help France set fire to Mali just
doesn't compute and are we really go I
wouldn't give my son's life in Mali and
I know that you wouldn't either but
we're expecting other people to send
their children to go there and fight
yeah the difficulty here is the complex
issues and um we we we view it all with
hindsight I mean we look at Afghanistan
now and say if only we hadn't gone in
but what would have happened if we
hadn't gone in 10 years ago um and and
my my question to you would be well do
we just sit and do nothing there are
people suffering in in Syria I think we
probably would go in if we thought it
was a safe uh thing to do and we had we
had the money we had the money in the
stomach for it we don't have TOA do we
there are bad things happen all over the
world we are a small country of 65
million off the northwest coast of
Europe that is virtually bankrupt in
triple dip recession it would be better
if the British government concentrated
on fixing our own problems here at home